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DOBBS: Let me start first, 96 percent of us, according to most polls, celebrate Christmas. Why in the world do we care about a program in a public school in which children are singing "White Christmas," "We Wish You A Merry Christmas."
NADINE STROSSEN, PRESIDENT, ACLU: That's actually quite fine, Lou. Under the United States constitution, religious liberty means that government has no business either preferring religion or disfavoring religion.
And that means government certainly may not suppress the 96 percent of Americans who are celebrating Christmas in their own churches or in their own homes. In the public schools, if there's no religious component and we're just talking about, you know, seasonal songs as part of a seasonal celebration that would extend to other holidays as well, that's also absolutely fine.
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DOBBS: The point is that a number of schools have been approached by the ACLU, told they cannot have Nativity scenes on their lawns.
STROSSEN: Well, that would absolutely if it were a Nativity scene on public property, namely, a public school with impressionable school children, with no other attendant displays, that's clearly unconstitutional according to a decision written by Supreme Court Justice Sandra Day O'Connor, hardly a flaming radical appointed by Ronald Reagan.
And she said the problem with this kind of unattended Christian display in a public school or indeed in a public square is that it sends a message to certain children that they are outsiders, that they are not part of our community.
DOBBS: What about Santa Claus in the classroom?
STROSSEN: Last time I knew Santa Claus did not have any Christian connotations and is part of what the Supreme Court calls...
DOBBS: St. Nicholas? St. Nicholas? My gosh, I...
STROSSEN: Lou, let me tell you, let me tell you, the Supreme Court's test, concocted by Sandra Day O'Connor, a Ronald Reagan appointee, I think, is a very reasonable and fair one. We certainly support it. Let me tell you, would a reasonable observer looking at this, think that it is an endorsement of religion? I don't think a reasonable observer looking at Santa Claus would say that's an endorsement of religion. I do think looking at a Nativity scene, they'd say it is and it's unconstitutional.
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DOBBS: This is a great country. I think we all agree about that. What I'm having trouble with and a few other folks are, and this comes not from a religious belief, but children singing Christmas carols, surely there is a more important...
STROSSEN: Have you heard me object to that? I have not objected to that nor have our clients. If you're talking about a nativity scene that's very different from singing "Jingle Bells" or Christmas carols.
SEARS: In Colorado you wrote a demand letter to one of our clients.
STROSSEN: I read that letter. It was not complaining about Christmas carols.
(CROSSTALK)
SEARS: So you encourage schools to have any Christmas Carol they want to sing in any of their school programs?
STROSSEN: As part of a neutral program.
DOBBS: Oh, for crying out loud.
STROSSEN: As recognizing the holiday season. I'm quoting the Supreme Court's decision.
DOBBS: I don't care what you're quoting.
STROSSEN: We have Kwanza.
DOBBS: Does common sense fit in here anywhere?
STROSSEN: Common sense, I think, is reflected in the notion that religion is not going to flourish if the government can intervene to promote some religions and to discourage other religion.
DOBBS: What are you doing, you have the courts intervening in communities all over the country. That's government.
STROSSEN: In order to preserve the neutrality. That religion precisely because it's so special, belongs in the realm of the individual, the family, the church, other places of worship. It does not belong mixed up with government.
DOBBS: Nadine -- I've got producers screaming at me, Alan. You have been poorly treated on this broadcast. I have not been able, I apologize. I'm going to ask you both to come back.
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DOBBS: Well, we're going to sing them here no matter what. We'll take a lawsuit.
That brings us to the subject of our poll tonight, "Do you believe that Christmas and Santa are part of the American culture and, therefore, should be preserved in our schools and public places? Yes or no." Cast your vote at cnn.com/lou. We'll have the results for you later
Lou just doesn't hear anything which doesn't fit his worldview. Christians are persecuted. The ACLU doesn't want your kids singing Rudolph the Red-Nosed Reindeer. blahblahblah