"I Didn't Do It"

Sam Rosenfeld has it right. One of the worst things about Bush's comments was, once again, his inability to take responsibility.

I think George W. Bush's dodge on the mistakes question is even more revealing, and unflattering, than at first glance. Think about the only thing he pointed to as a mistake: appointments. That is to say, the only mistake he made is some other folks screwing up their jobs. Even his single mistake is someone else's fault.

Later Night Chat

Bush sucks edition.

Dred Scott

There are mistakes which happen in live formats, and mistakes which are pre-fabbed, deliberate, and therefore you're held accountable for. Mistakes involving the issue of slavery are particularly offensive, no matter what the mistake.
Bush said:

Another example would be the Dred Scott case, which is where judges years ago said that the constitution allowed slavery because of personal property rights.

Dred Scott wasn't based on property rights. It was based on racism.

The decision of the court was read in March of 1857. Chief Justice Roger B. Taney -- a staunch supporter of slavery -- wrote the "majority opinion" for the court. It stated that because Scott was black, he was not a citizen and therefore had no right to sue. The decision also declared the Missouri Compromise of 1820, legislation which restricted slavery in certain territories, unconstitutional.

Post-Debate Discussion

All non-poll chat here.

Polls

Post-debate polls. I'll post the obvious ones and people should add their local ones in this thread (please, don't post anything else - I'll have another discussion thread.

http://www.cnn.com
http://www.foxnews.com
http://www.msnbc.com
http://www.hardball.msnbc.com
http://www.washingtonpost.com
http://www.abcnews.com
http://cbsnews.com
http://nbcnews.com
strib
Inky/PDN
Sun-Sentinel
latimes.com
Atlanta J-C
O-hi-o
toledoblade.com
wyoming

Partial Birth Abortion

"You can run but you cannot hide"

wow.

Thread the Sixth

Mrs. Atrios gets to go to an inaugural ball edition.


Let's give Kerry the House.

...Blinky's back.


...Timber company? News to him?

President Bush himself would have qualified as a "small business owner" under the Republican definition, based on his 2001 federal income tax returns. He reported $84 of business income from his part ownership of a timber-growing enterprise.

Thread Goes Fifth

"I didn't do it."

...."offroad diesel engine"? what the fuck is that?

...."hydrogen generated automobile"? whhhhuuuuuuuuuuuuuh?

Thread Goes Fourth - Presidenty Kerry edition

This is great. Kerry wins.

Let's give him the House.

Thread the Third - TALK LOUDER EDITION!!!

Bush is like a bad American tourist in a foreign country. If only he SCREAMS A LITTLE BIT LOUDER people will understand it.

desperation.


...internets?

...What about Poland??????

Debate Thread the Second

Same thing, different debate.


...man, NBC isn't doing enough reaction shots, but when they do Bush sure is superfreaky.


...did Bush really say he was disappointed he didn't find any weapons of mass destruction? That's *really* superfreaky...

Debate Thread the First

Discuss.

...some serious condescending to questioner Robin.

Debate Cat Blogging

Pre-Debate Spin Thread

Document the atrocities...

Lies

As has been demonstrated recently, Bush and everyone one of his flunkies have absolutely no qualms about going out there and lying. My big worry for tonight is that Bush is going to go out there and just make stuff up. Lots of it. The danger for Kerry is that he'll, as any intelligent honest person would, want to be able to point out the lies and correct the record. However, one doesn't win these debates by "debating." One wins them by not looking like a complete douchebag, and by having one snappy comeback our enlightened pundit class can seize on as "the moment" of the debate, as they tried desperately to do with Cheney's lie. Tim Russert, who even knew it was a lie at the time, still commented on how masterful it was, which is absolutely stunning.

And, what does Russert think about this debate? Apparently, he already knows:

MSNBC: The burden in this second debate seems to be on President Bush to rebound and even the score with Sen. Kerry.

Russert: Even his closest supporters acknowledge the first debate was a lackluster performance. It reminded me very much of Ronald Reagan in 1984, where, after a dismal first debate, he bounced back in the second one against Walter Monday with that witty line about, “I won’t use your youth and inexperience against you.”

Kerry More Likeable Than Bush

So STOP SAYING THAT HE ISN'T. CNN/Time poll.

George Bush and John Kerry are again deadlocked, 45% Bush – 45% Kerry, among likely voters in the three-way race, as they head into tonight's town hall meeting, according to a TIME Poll taken Oct. 6-7. Nader is down to 3%.

On being "likeable," a key strength for Bush in 2000, Bush now trails Kerry, 70% - 65%. (Bush had a slight 4 point lead on likeability before the debate.) Bush still leads Kerry by a wide margin, 81% - 42% on "sticking to his positions."

It's pretty astounding, really. No matter who people intend to vote for, they do tend to buy into the meta-narratives the media feeds them. Even people who are diehard Kerry supporters can find themselves mentally parroting, "Well, yes, I do agree that Bush is more likeable but I don't think that's very important when it comes to choosing a president." And, the "Bush is a likeable guy" [and Kerry isn't] theme has been shoved down our throats more than any of them.

"Lord of the Flies"

Oh. Wow. That's some good pr0n for Democrats. In his quality DeLay roundup, Kuffner points us to this quote in the NYT about what would happen if DeLay were to either lose his seat or his leadership position (or, presumably, get thrown in jail):

"Without Tom DeLay it would be complete and total chaos," said one Republican strategist with close ties to the White House. "The House would descend into 'Lord of the Flies.' "

While winning the Senate would of course be a prize in its own right, I do think that the one-two punch of taking down Bush and the House leadership, one way or another, is the way to throw the GOP off balance for awhile.

Lock Him Up

Digby sez:

We've come full circle. They have so lost touch with reality that Cheney is now implicating himself in Saddam's WMD programs and he doesn't even realize it.

heh. indeed.

Call Them Out

Is the media ever going to hold these people accountable for making military decisions and releasing terror alerts for political purposes? They're not even trying to hide it anymore. Could anything be more outrageous? I don't think the Rude Pundit is rude enough sometime.

First, we have this:

Civilians involved in the process also told the Times that the new approach was formulated in part to counter criticism from President Bush's Democratic challenger, Sen. John Kerry, that the administration has no plan for Iraq.

And, then we have this, regarding the "your children are all going to die" terror alert:

The Department of Homeland Security official said the material was associated with a person in Iraq, and it could not be established that this person had any ties to terrorism. He did have a connection to civic groups doing planning for schools in Iraq, the official said.

(both via Americablog)

When Will People Learn

I understand that Chait is writing the best arguments he can come up with for re-electing Bush, even though he clearly wants no such thing. But, even given that, statements like this drive me crazy:

Begin with the premise that a second-term Bush administration is unlikely to make things a whole lot worse. First of all, domestically, GOP moderates and deficit hawks have finally begun to wake up and realize that they have to rein in Bush's reckless fiscal policies.

Um, no. No they haven't. They don't exist any longer in sufficient numbers. Sane Republicans are not going to save us. They don't have the power.